Westworld Season 1 General Discussion

Did Bernard choke Elsie? Was it her in his memory flashback, when he asked Ford, if he had hurt someone ever before Theresa? Maybe he did it to protect Theresa, because he actually was in love with her ...
Speaking of Arnold and if he's human, I'm not sure. But regarding what Ford said to Bernard about Arnold and what finally drove him mad, it well might be that Arnold was the predecessor of Bernard and the first A.I. who created special code for Ford (because "human engineers were not able to create" something like real feelings of a real human heart for the hosts), who finally rebelled against his God. Bernard also made an aggressive move towards Ford, but Ford was able to control him as usual. And in a position like Bernard and all access to the coding, who knows how much of his own code Arnold might have been able to place before he was eliminated by Ford.

That was another fine episode, but only two to go!
BTW, your theory that the tech guys like Felix and Sylvester might be also hosts better be true, because that would explain somehow, how easy it is for Maeve to use them. Because otherwise - as much as I like the Maeve character - it feels unrealistic, that they can change Maeve's setup to that level without triggering any logging or security protocols. I hope they'll still explain that in a more convincing way than just the blackmailing thing ...

tscc1000 wrote:

Did Bernard choke Elsie? Was it her in his memory flashback, when he asked Ford, if he had hurt someone ever before Theresa? Maybe he did it to protect Theresa, because he actually was in love with her ...
Speaking of Arnold and if he's human, I'm not sure. But regarding what Ford said to Bernard about Arnold and what finally drove him mad, it well might be that Arnold was the predecessor of Bernard and the first A.I. who created special code for Ford (because "human engineers were not able to create" something like real feelings of a real human heart for the hosts), who finally rebelled against his God. Bernard also made an aggressive move towards Ford, but Ford was able to control him as usual. And in a position like Bernard and all access to the coding, who knows how much of his own code Arnold might have been able to place before he was eliminated by Ford.

That was another fine episode, but only two to go!
BTW, your theory that the tech guys like Felix and Sylvester might be also hosts better be true, because that would explain somehow, how easy it is for Maeve to use them. Because otherwise - as much as I like the Maeve character - it feels unrealistic, that they can change Maeve's setup to that level without triggering any logging or security protocols. I hope they'll still explain that in a more convincing way than just the blackmailing thing ...

So what you're saying is Arnold is Lucifer? God (Ford in this case) made him too well. So well that Arnold wanted to replace Ford. After long struggle, Ford trapped Arnold at the center of the maze (aka Hell). Arnold is stuck there trying to mess up creation.

Seems plausible.  

On Elsie, I think that was supposed to be an actual memory of Bernard choking Elsie. Poor Elsie. What did she do wrong? She was protecting Westworld's interests.

One thing about the tech. Maeve cut his aorta? Do hosts have an artery in the throat? But then the other tech was able to seal it. Is that even possible with a human?

I get the feeling this story is going to be like bubbles in the bath. One mystery expanding into the next.

Do hosts have an artery in the throat? But then the other tech was able to seal it. Is that even possible with a human?

good point, I wondered when he was sealing it, I thought wow that is a high tech device,
but that didnt seem right.
Did not occur to me he might be a host too............. well wait maybe everyone is a host!! LOL

Why is everybody always naked? Seems like a lot of trouble just to tweak programming which is what they're usually doing.

SurfingEagle wrote:

Why is everybody always naked? Seems like a lot of trouble just to tweak programming which is what they're usually doing.

Well, it's HBO?

Nah, it's liberating and also carries deeper meaning, just let Thandie (playing Maeve) explain ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTUgWq5de58

She's easy to watch and listen to and she almost seems to believe what she is saying, so I'd almost want to believe her too ...

Well SE she says it isnt just to show nudity.

T5000 wrote:

Well SE she says it isnt just to show nudity.

She said a bustier is uncomfortable and more distracting to the other person than being naked.

WESTWORLD
Air Date: Sunday, November 27, 2016
Time Slot: 9:00 PM-10:00 PM EST on HBO
Episode Title: (#09/109) "The Well-Tempered Clavier"

Episode #9: "The Well-Tempered Clavier"

Dolores (Evan Rachel Wood) and Bernard (Jeffrey Wright) reconnect with their pasts; Maeve (Thandie Newton) makes a bold proposition to Hector (Rodrigo Santoro); Teddy (James Marsden) finds enlightenment, at a price.

Written by Dan Dietz & Katherine Lingenfelter; directed by Michelle MacLaren.

Read more: Westworld on HBO | TheFutonCritic

Promo pics for ep 1x09:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUCPk-RHLGs

Got to admit. Thandie Newton is looking pretty good for 44. Had to look that up.

44 ? would have said about 33 .
so only 2 more eps !

SurfingEagle wrote:

T5000 wrote:

Well SE she says it isnt just to show nudity.

She said a bustier is uncomfortable and more distracting to the other person than being naked.

She is english lol that pretty much explains her statements.

T5000 wrote:

SurfingEagle wrote:

T5000 wrote:

Well SE she says it isnt just to show nudity.

She said a bustier is uncomfortable and more distracting to the other person than being naked.

She is english lol that pretty much explains her statements.

Isn't there a Brit around this thread somewhere. I'll keep my keyboard silent on the subject for the time being. Wouldn't want to ruffle any feathers

Whoa, I have to let that settle a bit, but ...

Ford used Dolores to kill Arnold, his former partner.
Ford built Bernard after Arnold (Bernard Lowe rearranged is “Arnold Weber” ).
William is the MiB.
Elsie was killed by Bernard.

And wow, Ford does have the hell of a dark view of humanity ... and he's always a step ahead.
Obviously it wasn't his first time of having Bernard revolting, so maybe the host he was already building, is the new version of Bernard?
I wonder, if Ford is aware of Maeve's development (I at least doubt it) and if he really is aware of every last bit of Arnold's code and the whole "maze game" ...

I'm definitely looking forward to the season finale next week ...

http://www.ew.com wrote:

Westworld finale will answer your questions (except one)
by James Hibberd • @JamesHibberd
Posted November 28 2016 — 11:47 AM EST

Showrunners Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy assure 90-minute finale will pay off

Next week’s season finale of HBO’s Westworld isn’t going to leave us hanging – at least, not about most of the show’s biggest mysteries. 
Showrunners Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy assure EW that the final two episodes (including Sunday’s hour and next week’s first season closer) will pay off for fans who have been trying to unravel their tightly plotted storylines.
“We weren’t interested in spinning out mysteries with no answers in sight,” Nolan said. “Our goal is to tell an ambitious story in season-long chapters, each with a distinct feel and theme.”
Added Joy: “Most of the questions viewers have will be resolved in the final episodes, except for the most important one: What happens next.”
The Westworld finale is a super-sized 90 minutes long and is directed by Nolan himself (who also helmed the show’s pilot).
Westworld season 2 isn’t expected until 2018. Previously, HBO’s entertainment president Casey Bloys told us regarding the showrunners’ pitch for the next round of episodes: “I didn’t know exactly what to expect in season 2. And what [Nolan and Joy] came up with is as exciting, mysterious and as fun as season 1. And completely original, as well.”
Here’s our recap for Sunday night’s ninth hour, which answered at least one huge question about the park’s co-creator Arnold.

90 minutes finale sounds awesome, but season 2 only in 2018 will be a damn long wait ...

tscc1000 wrote:

Whoa, I have to let that settle a bit, but ...

Ford used Dolores to kill Arnold, his former partner.
Ford built Bernard after Arnold (Bernard Lowe rearranged is “Arnold Weber” ).
William is the MiB.
Elsie was killed by Bernard.

And wow, Ford does have the hell of a dark view of humanity ... and he's always a step ahead.
Obviously it wasn't his first time of having Bernard revolting, so maybe the host he was already building, is the new version of Bernard?
I wonder, if Ford is aware of Maeve's development (I at least doubt it) and if he really is aware of every last bit of Arnold's code and the whole "maze game" ...

I'm definitely looking forward to the season finale next week ...

Well, we didn't actually see Elsie dead, just being choked. Probably, she's dead but it's not validated yet, IMO.
Did Ford fully admit to killing Arnold? I can't remember.

Also, how do you conclude that William is MiB?

SurfingEagle wrote:

1) Well, we didn't actually see Elsie dead, just being choked. Probably, she's dead but it's not validated yet, IMO.
2) Did Ford fully admit to killing Arnold? I can't remember.

3) Also, how do you conclude that William is MiB?

1) Yeah, I know, we haven't seen Elsie's body yet, so she might be alive (as it always might be in TV shows), but I don't see, why they would need that for the story. Where is she held for several days? How would she cooperate after all she has discovered? Maybe Ford could just offer her a bribe and a career boost? I don't think, Ford would take that risk after all we've seen, how he's handling things ... Best chance would be, that for some reason Bernarnold cared for her and didn't kill her, but is hiding her somewhere, thus overriding his programs somehow, but again, seeing how Ford is in control and always a step ahead ... he wouldn't detect that?
2) And no, Ford didn't explicitely admit to the killing of Arnold. But like he made Bernarnold killing Theresa, I think it's not that far away to assume that he's also behind Dolores killing Arnold, what she at least explicitely remembered (without telling about the circumstances yet). Though it also could be the result of Dolores going rogue without being manipulated by Ford. Probably Arnold himself was the one, who only made it possible with his "special code" for hosts to act as conscious beings and go off the narrative with the result of actually killing humans. Maybe that's the big disagreement Ford always had with Arnold and why he always makes sure to be in control of the hosts, even with a "backdoor" in the conscious ones like Bernarnold or the lobotomized ones like Clementine.
3) Who else would it be? Logan?
Well, the main reason, why I now think young William is the older MiB, was William's character development lately. He pretty much has turned from the good boy to a dark and unpredictable person on his adventure in Westworld, finally slaughtering the whole bunch of Confederados after the "truth" about Dolores was forced on him by Logan. William seems to fall for the "Westworld game" more and more, so the final result well might be the MiB looking for the "maze" as the ultimate kick of the game.
There's also the knife, which Logan/William and MiB are using. It seems to be the same.
And finally there's this special connection between William and Dolores, which might be in some weird way still be there between MiB and Dolores.
But ok, it's not offical yet ... so who do you think is the MiB then? Just one of the bosses of the Westworld cooperation, who got too deep into Westworld?

tscc1000 wrote:

SurfingEagle wrote:

1) Well, we didn't actually see Elsie dead, just being choked. Probably, she's dead but it's not validated yet, IMO.
2) Did Ford fully admit to killing Arnold? I can't remember.

3) Also, how do you conclude that William is MiB?

1) Yeah, I know, we haven't seen Elsie's body yet, so she might be alive (as it always might be in TV shows), but I don't see, why they would need that for the story. Where is she held for several days? How would she cooperate after all she has discovered? Maybe Ford could just offer her a bribe and a career boost? I don't think, Ford would take that risk after all we've seen, how he's handling things ... Best chance would be, that for some reason Bernarnold cared for her and didn't kill her, but is hiding her somewhere, thus overriding his programs somehow, but again, seeing how Ford is in control and always a step ahead ... he wouldn't detect that?
2) And no, Ford didn't explicitely admit to the killing of Arnold. But like he made Bernarnold killing Theresa, I think it's not that far away to assume that he's also behind Dolores killing Arnold, what she at least explicitely remembered (without telling about the circumstances yet). Though it also could be the result of Dolores going rogue without being manipulated by Ford. Probably Arnold himself was the one, who only made it possible with his "special code" for hosts to act as conscious beings and go off the narrative with the result of actually killing humans. Maybe that's the big disagreement Ford always had with Arnold and why he always makes sure to be in control of the hosts, even with a "backdoor" in the conscious ones like Bernarnold or the lobotomized ones like Clementine.
3) Who else would it be? Logan?
Well, the main reason, why I now think young William is the older MiB, was William's character development lately. He pretty much has turned from the good boy to a dark and unpredictable person on his adventure in Westworld, finally slaughtering the whole bunch of Confederados after the "truth" about Dolores was forced on him by Logan. William seems to fall for the "Westworld game" more and more, so the final result well might be the MiB looking for the "maze" as the ultimate kick of the game.
There's also the knife, which Logan/William and MiB are using. It seems to be the same.
And finally there's this special connection between William and Dolores, which might be in some weird way still be there between MiB and Dolores.
But ok, it's not offical yet ... so who do you think is the MiB then? Just one of the bosses of the Westworld cooperation, who got too deep into Westworld?

1. What would be a motive to kill Elsie? She helped Bernard and Ford discover the plot to transmit secrets out of Westworld unless Ford is actually in on the plot somehow. She didn't seemingly know Bernard was a host. Maybe, Elsie is a host too and will be repaired and reprogrammed to forget everything. Honestly, her death makes no sense to me other than they want to cull the cast.

2. OK, it seems likely that Dolores was ordered by Ford to kill Arnold, but I still say it's unconfirmed.

3. The knife is a bit flimsy, IMO. I believe that's a common Bowie knife (still common today) often used as a prop in Westerns to fit the era. If there's a distinct marking on the knife like the hilt is crafted with some unique emblem, then that may be different. To me, it still seems like two stories converging at the same point of the maze. If William is flashbacks of MiB, then it means Dolores has been stuck in the same loop of seeking out Arnold in the maze for thirty years, and all she ever learns from her efforts is that she killed Arnold. Kind of meaningless if that's true.

SurfingEagle wrote:

T5000 wrote:

SurfingEagle wrote:

T5000 wrote:

Well SE she says it isnt just to show nudity.

She said a bustier is uncomfortable and more distracting to the other person than being naked.

She is english lol that pretty much explains her statements.

Isn't there a Brit around this thread somewhere. I'll keep my keyboard silent on the subject for the time being. Wouldn't want to ruffle any feathers

yes kevin england, lol forgot he was here, but I dont think he will be offended.
he hasnt shown up in awhile now.


This ep gave alot, not really answers, but info !!
We get the info but still have to figure it all out.
too much for me lol. I will wait till I see the last ep.

2018 !!!!!!!!!! that is too long, I will have forgot everything by then !!

T5000 wrote:

SurfingEagle wrote:

T5000 wrote:

SurfingEagle wrote:

T5000 wrote:

Well SE she says it isnt just to show nudity.

She said a bustier is uncomfortable and more distracting to the other person than being naked.

She is english lol that pretty much explains her statements.

Isn't there a Brit around this thread somewhere. I'll keep my keyboard silent on the subject for the time being. Wouldn't want to ruffle any feathers

yes kevin england, lol forgot he was here, but I dont think he will be offended.
he hasnt shown up in awhile now.


This ep gave alot, not really answers, but info !!
We get the info but still have to figure it all out.
too much for me lol. I will wait till I see the last ep.

2018 !!!!!!!!!! that is too long, I will have forgot everything by then !!

If MiB turns out to be William, I'll be disappointed. To me, that wouldn't be mystery, just confusing the audience with convoluted editing and a myriad of flashbacks.

Fall of 2018!!!??? Quite a bit of a wait.

well eagle I dont think they said fall 2018, just sometime in 2018.

90-minute finale ..... at least it is a long one.

I am wondering if the blk guy really shot himself, we didnt actually see it.
he was a good actor and character.

I have lost interest in mib, as I dont like the type person he is, and his character
just doesnt seem real.
I mean even if a villain they can be likable , but he just isnt.

T5000 wrote:

well eagle I dont think they said fall 2018, just sometime in 2018.

90-minute finale ..... at least it is a long one.

I am wondering if the blk guy really shot himself, we didnt actually see it.
he was a good actor and character.

I have lost interest in mib, as I dont like the type person he is, and his character
just doesnt seem real.
I mean even if a villain they can be likable , but he just isnt.

My understanding was that he could rebuild Bernard, or he has done so before. So, the option is open to bring him back, IMO. It's a matter of resetting his new brain back to factory defaults.

MiB seems designed to be gray. We actually don't know for sure what he did with Dolores. We were lead to believe a certain way. But the writing style of this show is to lead the audience to believe something but then change it as a way of surprise.

My understanding was that he could rebuild Bernard, or he has done so before. So, the option is open to bring him back,.... ok that makes sense.

But the writing style of this show is to lead the audience to believe something but then change it as a way of surprise.....
and yeah this show is like lost and tscc combined into one.

T5000 wrote:

My understanding was that he could rebuild Bernard, or he has done so before. So, the option is open to bring him back,.... ok that makes sense.

But the writing style of this show is to lead the audience to believe something but then change it as a way of surprise.....
and yeah this show is like lost and tscc combined into one.

To put it another way, a host gets shot in the head every five minutes. Then, they fix them, and they're back out there again in another five minutes. So, the scene was suggesting that it was a big end for Bernard but why should it be unless Ford is just tired of repairing him. I'm not convinced that we've seen the last of Bernard.

WESTWORLD
Air Date: Sunday, December 04, 2016
Time Slot: 9:00 PM-10:30 PM EST on HBO
Episode Title: (#10/110-90) "The Bicameral Mind"

SEASON 1 FINALE

Episode #10: "The Bicameral Mind"

Ford (Anthony Hopkins) unveils his bold new narrative; Dolores (Evan Rachel Wood) embraces her identity; Maeve (Thandie Newton) sets her plan in motion.

Written by Lisa Joy & Jonathan Nolan; directed by Jonathan Nolan.

Read more: Westworld on HBO | TheFutonCritic

Promo pics for ep 1x10:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjQVFTpp0U8

Wow that was dark. I didn't see that coming until the end. When he pointed out Dolores' gun, I was like no way he's getting ready to do what I'm thinking.

BTW, I do like that music they use during the intense scenes, just not the intro music all that much.