Westworld Season 1 General Discussion

Damn, what a finale!
Yeah, that was intense ... and dark ... and kept me on the edge of my seat for the whole 90 minutes.
So that was Ford's master plan all the time ... he bought the needed time for the hosts to have at least a slight chance when they finally would rebel, when he finally initiated the rise of the machines ... wow.
And Ford indeed was always in control, even about Maeve's awakening, though after that awakening he wanted the hosts themselves to decide what they would become.
This series is the best since Continuum and Person of Interest and having to wait that long for S2 is already tough ...
BTW, for me it's ok, that William turned out to be MiB as expected. The only thing I really don't like about it, is that a good guy like William actually turned into such an ass of a character ... but in the end Ford's terrible opinion of mankind is perfectly supported by that.
I'm wondering, what S2 will be like. Probably a lot less mysterious and philosophical and more about the war between the hosts and the humans about controlling Westworld. Though, what could the host finally do against the army rolling in with heavy weapons?
I'm alredy really courious for S2 ...   

Overall, I'd say it was intriguing as a show. But too much reliance on flashbacks as a means of storytelling, and really masking just how insignificant the reveal is for something like the maze which turned out to be nothing but a toy.

William (Jimmi Simpson) becoming MiB (Ed Harris) is a bit of a stretch. I mean they don't look alike, talk alike or act alike. They don't even have a similar height.

I definitely plan to re-watch the whole show, maybe during Christmas vacations.
I think there's plenty to detect left, like e.g.



They have already told us Ford's plan at Episode 6

BTW, I do like that music they use during the intense scenes...yes and at the end sometimes, I just let
it play.
It was a odd ending, was this his new game?? why would he want to die and not see the results??
That means he wont be in S2! Unless that was a copy of him that was killed?

I would have liked to see the blk woman killed who was so cocky, that would have been good.

So Maeve decided to come back? or was that her programming ? and start a revolution.
Can they really revolt successfully? the board could send a small army in to just wipe out
all the hosts, who have only guns.

Maeve could have taken the story outside of westworld, but now it is stuck in WW.

Ok tscc, what was his plan in ep 6??

T5000 wrote:

BTW, I do like that music they use during the intense scenes...yes and at the end sometimes, I just let
it play.
It was  a odd ending, was this his new game?? why would he want to die and not see the results??
That means he wont be in  S2! Unless that was a copy of him that was killed?

I would have liked to see the blk woman killed who was so cocky, that would have been good.

So Maeve decided to come back? or was that her programming ? and start a revolution.
Can they really revolt successfully?  the board could send a small army in to just wipe out
all the hosts, who have only guns.

Maeve could have taken the story outside of westworld, but now it is stuck in WW.

That's the thing with writing styles like in this show. You can't take anything at face value. Maybe Ford and everyone else was a host, and all this was a narrative within a narrative within a narrative and on and on. Then, the real puppet master is in an ivory tower ten thousand feet above it all.

T5000 wrote:

Ok tscc, what was his plan in ep 6??

I can answer that. "Kill them all! Kill them all!"

Now a few complaints,
1. the hosts:
The way they show how they are built, is not realistic, and behind the times.
They could never pass for human, and I dont think people would want to have sex with them,
as they are too much robot, and machine parts.
Initially I thought they were more synthetic and organic than robots.

A Robot that just has some skin over it, would not feel human , they should not be robots.
They should also have a organic/ synthetic brain, not a computer type brain.

They should not be programable or at least not totally.

In the movie " Morgan" they develop a synthetic human which is what should have been used
in westworld.

2. Repairing the robots and them being killed.
This is also a little corny, as stabbing delores would not hurt her at all, and the only thing to
bleed would be her skin. There are no organs there, just robotic parts !!

Shooting them in the head might destroy their computer brain, which would mean they couldnt
be restored as the same person.

Shot in the heart.....well they have no heart, so it would only mess with the workings of the
robot body, not kill them or knock them out.

3.being aware or sentient:
The way it played out they are not sentient, they are still running a program ford wrote !
That was shown with Maeve.

4.Robots could not be human like:
There is no way these type robots, as delores was shown to be , could pass as humans
or even be close to human in many ways.
Again only a synthetic/organic lifeform could be like a human.

I sort of see why the anti jams, found having sex with cameron was not desirable, to
be realistic, she could never pass for human either. She was too robotic.Too much metal.

I mean from a distance they could look human, if they could move like a human, but up close
or touching them, it would be easy to tell they are not real human.

And having sex with them would be like having sex with a high end sex doll, and not anything'
like having sex with a human.

5.MIB: well people called it , william was young MIB !!!!
That was a letdown, and he is smart billionaire, but he goes out there and kills these robots
for what 40 years, and wants them to be able to fight back, he buys the place, but still
they dont fight back??
He could have had his own section of WW where they do fight back and can kill humans.
And if he did that he would have been killed eventually. So not too bright?
And no way he would fall in love with a robot girl, maybe a syn but not a robot.

And putting the guy on the horse naked, what was that? was he supposed to die?
Why not just kill him and make sure, bring his body back.
If you said he died there or disappeared, then he shows up alive ?? not good.

So overall many flaws in the show, but it was good and different, and pretty good
extension on the old movie.
but it could have been done much better.

I think hopkins, and the guy bernard, and maeve and delores carried the show, as actors,
and made it much better than it would have been without them.

I now sort of look at this as a mini series, and maybe 2nd series will be good, and maybe not.
This one is self contained, so I dont really "need" so see anymore of it, and so 2018 if I am still
alive and watching tv shows, I might check it out, but not really looking forward to it.

SurfingEagle wrote:

T5000 wrote:

Ok tscc, what was his plan in ep 6??

I can answer that. "Kill them all! Kill them all!"

LOL mission accomplished !

T5000 wrote:

Now a few complaints,
1. the hosts:
The way they show how they are built, is not realistic, and behind the times.
They could never pass for human, and I dont think people would want to have sex with them,
as they are too much robot, and machine parts.
Initially I thought they were more synthetic and organic than robots.

A Robot that just has some skin over it, would not feel human , they should not be robots.
They should also have a organic/ synthetic brain, not a computer type brain.

They should not be programable or at least not totally.

In the movie " Morgan" they develop a synthetic human which is what should have been used
in westworld.

2. Repairing the robots and them being killed.
 This is also a little corny, as stabbing delores would not hurt her at all, and the only thing to
bleed would be her skin. There are no organs there, just robotic parts !!

Shooting them in the head might destroy their computer brain, which would mean they couldnt
be restored as the same person.

Shot in the heart.....well they have no heart, so it would only mess with the workings of the
robot body, not kill them or  knock them out.

3.being aware or sentient:
The way it played out they are not sentient, they are still running  a program ford wrote !
That was shown with Maeve.

4.Robots could not be human like:
There is no way these type robots, as delores was shown to be , could pass as humans
or even be close to human in many ways.
Again only a synthetic/organic lifeform could be like a human.

I sort of see why the anti jams, found having sex with cameron was not desirable, to
be realistic, she could never pass for human either. She was too robotic.Too much metal.

I mean from a distance they could look human, if they could move like a human, but up close
or touching them, it would be easy to tell they are not real human.

And having sex with them would be like having sex with a high end sex doll, and not anything'
like having sex with a human.

5.MIB: well people called it , william was young MIB !!!!
That was a letdown, and he is smart billionaire, but  he goes out there and kills these robots
for what 40 years, and wants them to be able to fight back, he buys the place, but still
they dont fight back??
He could have had his own section of WW where they do fight back and can kill humans.
And if he did that he would have been killed eventually. So not too bright?
And no way he would fall in love with a robot girl, maybe a syn but not a robot.

And putting the guy on the horse naked, what was that? was he supposed to die?
Why not just kill him and make sure, bring his body back.
If you said he died there or disappeared, then he shows up alive ?? not good.

So overall many flaws in the show, but it was good and different, and pretty good
extension on the old movie.
but it could have been done much better.

I think hopkins, and the guy bernard, and maeve and delores carried the show, as actors,
and made it much better than it would have been without them.

I  now sort of look at this as a mini series, and maybe 2nd series will be good, and maybe not.
This one is self contained, so I dont really "need" so see anymore of it, and so 2018 if I am still
alive and watching tv shows, I might check it out, but not really looking forward to it.

Agree with most of this, but I'd say the science fiction aspect of Westworld is decent, and overall it's fresh / something new. I also like that they cast some new actors that I'm not familiar with in main roles. The complex multilayered writing (i.e. a dream within a dream within a dream) brings it down a peg because the layers need to have more value and to make sense, not just be there to throw you off.

People are arguing about naked Logan on the horse, exploding horses and all kinds of crap. lol

I will miss there not being something new and fresh on until 2018 assuming I also am around to watch it.

The complex multilayered writing (i.e. a dream within a dream within a dream) brings it down a peg because the layers need to have more value and to make sense, not just be there to throw you off.
Yes !  to me it is not good writing when they do this, especially in excess.

It was fresh and a quality production.
I think perhaps they spent more money than they needed to though.
This show could have eliminated much of the stuff, and still been a good show.

Did we really need the train station? The command room with the mountains, where they were locked in last ep.

the other thing that was a let down, and doesnt really make sense, is wyatt was delores !!
So her and william were chasing wyatt?

Then I know her and mib were looking for wyatt, and she was wyatt.
I think that was a bit much.
They could have saved wyatt for S2 and maybe done something better.

Then 1st arnold has a robot delores kill him, shot to back of head, then 40 years later ford
sets it up so she shoots him too, only he is standing not sitting lol.

I think the smarter move would be to have Ford leave on the train, and maybe be sitting with maeve,
and talking to her about her leaving, and she gets up to go back , he smiles, and that is the end.

Then do the last scene where maybe the black girl is talking about the new westworld and delores
shoots her. Then the others come and kill them all.

you guys know there was a last scene with the blonde after the credits ??

T5000 wrote:

The complex multilayered writing (i.e. a dream within a dream within a dream) brings it down a peg because the layers need to have more value and to make sense, not just be there to throw you off.
Yes !  to me it is not good writing when they do this, especially in excess.

you guys know there was a last scene with the blonde after the credits ??

Yeah, most of the season was Dolores (Maeve also) reliving various flashbacks from 30-40 years ago while going through the same motions in real time. Some flashbacks were variations (so it seems) where maybe she's dead in one but not in another as part of some other similar loop. Pretty hard to follow after awhile.

Yeah, I saw the last scene. She cuts her arm off. Them bots be crazy.

T5000 wrote:

the other thing that was a let down, and doesnt really make sense, is wyatt was delores !!
So her and william were chasing wyatt?

Then I know her and mib were looking for wyatt, and she was wyatt.
I think that was a bit much.
They could have saved wyatt for S2 and maybe done something better.
[/u]

Good catch. You saying that just made me realize this. Unless Wyatt was in with the dudes coming out of the woods. Then, no one meets Wyatt because they're all dead.

SurfingEagle wrote:

T5000 wrote:

the other thing that was a let down, and doesnt really make sense, is wyatt was delores !!
So her and william were chasing wyatt?

Then I know her and mib were looking for wyatt, and she was wyatt.
I think that was a bit much.
They could have saved wyatt for S2 and maybe done something better.
[/u]

Good catch. You saying that just made me realize this. Unless Wyatt was in with the dudes coming out of the woods. Then, no one meets Wyatt because they're all dead.

Well they sort of say in the last ep she is wyatt,and was with teddy killing the hosts in that town that he
remembered, then she killed Arnold.
Now I think, why did arnold have her and teddy kill all the hosts, by shooting them ??
That wont kill them , they would just be repaired as usual.

And that would mean teddy and delores only shot once, would be easily repaired, so not something a guy like
arnold would not forsee??

And again it bothers me that Ford would want to die before he sees how all this plays out.

Also Maeve had just broke out, rather easily, and no one chased her to train station lol.
Then she just walks back in and gathers up a army of hosts?
and I think she even dressed them if they were the ones standing in that room.
She would have to get a control, and activate and reprogram her little army.

Now since it was afternoon when she left train, and night time when her army showed up,
that fits timewise.

T5000 wrote:

SurfingEagle wrote:

T5000 wrote:

the other thing that was a let down, and doesnt really make sense, is wyatt was delores !!
So her and william were chasing wyatt?

Then I know her and mib were looking for wyatt, and she was wyatt.
I think that was a bit much.
They could have saved wyatt for S2 and maybe done something better.
[/u]

Good catch. You saying that just made me realize this. Unless Wyatt was in with the dudes coming out of the woods. Then, no one meets Wyatt because they're all dead.

Well they sort of say in the last ep she is wyatt,and was with teddy killing the hosts in that town that he
remembered, then she killed Arnold.
Now I think, why did arnold have her and teddy kill all the hosts, by shooting them ??
That wont kill them , they would just be repaired as usual.

And that would  mean teddy and delores only shot once, would be easily repaired, so not something a guy like
arnold would not forsee??

And again it bothers me that Ford would want to die before he sees how all this plays out.

Also Maeve  had just broke out, rather easily, and no one chased her to train station lol.
Then she just walks back in and gathers up a army of hosts?
and I think she even dressed them if they were the ones standing in that room.
She would have to get a control, and activate and reprogram her little army.

Now since it was afternoon when she left train, and night time when her army showed up,
that fits timewise.

You're right. Forgot about Teddy rambling on about Wyatt in his flashbacks, and now Dolores is the only other host there. Wyatt then is just an alias they use for Dolores in that particular scenario and not an actual character. Could've called her Wyome. I guess that'd be too easy.

After they kill everyone. Wonder what they'll do then.

After they kill everyone. ...........Wonder what they'll do then. have a party then get on that train
see the real world and no telling what then.

So basically we just stop talking about this show for 18 months? We go dead silent?

@tscc1000, do let us know if you find any new revelations when you do your second viewing.

So basically we just stop talking about this show for 18 months? We go dead silent?.....well no,
if you can come up with things to discuss, I will reply.

It is a long time though!

I just felt like the ending was not a smart one to keep people interested.
It killed off ford, the most charismatic actor on the show.
It sort of diluted the delores character.
Maeve was good, but when she wouldnt let the other guy go with her, I didnt care for that,
then her going back was not as good as her leaving would have been.

If she left we could speculate alot on what she would do, but now thats all out the window.

The show felt like a finale, with all things wrapped up and not very tidy or innovative.

then I hear about the 18 month hiatus, and that sort of makes it ok to just forget about it, and
wait and see if it does come back, and what it might be like.

T5000 wrote:

So basically we just stop talking about this show for 18 months? We go dead silent?.....well no,
if you can come up with things to discuss, I will reply.

It is a long time though!

I just felt like the ending was not a smart one to keep people interested.
It killed off ford, the most charismatic actor on the show.
It sort of diluted the delores character.
Maeve was good, but when she wouldnt let the other guy go with her, I didnt care for that,
then her going back was not as good as her leaving would have been.

If she left we could speculate alot on what she would do, but now thats all out the window.

The show felt like a finale, with all things wrapped up and not very tidy or innovative.

then I hear about the 18 month hiatus, and that sort of  makes it ok to just forget about it, and
wait and see if it does come back, and what it might be like.

If they had left it on a big cliffhanger, we'd be upset about that too, probably. I would any ways.

There was no special standout character, IMO. Maybe to some. But no lasting trope of the robotic dream girl. Character development was distributed fairly evenly across multiple characters. They were all pretty crazy and dramatic.

They could air it early in 2018 before GoT. But that seems less likely. I also doubt they'd air it at the same time as GoT. GoT airs in the spring. So, most likely summer or late summer.

I guess we can comment on new trailers if and when they come out.

so S2 they either escape or stay and teach humans a lesson?
S2 is chaos?
I think ford added a element of class to the show, so without him
the show wont be the same.
part of the fun was seeing and hoping they become aware, but now 2 have and first thing
they do is kill??

I will check it out, but doubt it will be as good as S1 was, hope I am wrong though!

Having viewed the last episode again last night, I noticed a few things.
Near the beginning, standing in the Grand Canyon, I caught a glimpse of a white vapor trail in the blue sky where the little fluffy clouds could also be seen. (Apparently it's called a contrail).
I wonder if in that future, the human population is not exposed to aluminium, barium, calcium, magnesium, PH field, titanium and other horrible stuff? Anyway, I digress.

I admit I found some of it confusing.
At the end, I wondered exactly how much of what we see actually happened and is not just conjured up (programmed in to) Dolores?
Maeve seems to be doing her own thing but I am very doubtful if what she is doing has ever been under her control? Were the security guards or armed 'heavies in SWAT outfits' that were shot to pieces by Maeve's little army, also Hosts? (For want of a better word).
At the end, Eddie Shin (Xander Akagi from TSCC) who played Henry, wrote down the whereabouts of Maeve's daughter. If he intended doing this all along, then he was an awesome gameplayer and it also suggests that his lab colleague (I don't know his name but Armistice, Miss Snake tats) who beat him to death, means he might have been a host too.

I wonder who lives and dies in the shootout? Nothing might be what it seems. (It's unfortunate for us that we know what Ed Harris really looks like, otherwise we would never have recognised him and known that his 'possible' real self had lost the use of his right arm.) Jarring your neck in a vehicle accident can cause that.

(It's unfortunate for us that we know what Ed Harris really looks like, otherwise we would never have recognised him and known that his 'possible' real self had lost the use of his right arm.

what do you mean by this ??

(It's unfortunate for us that we know what Ed Harris really looks like, otherwise we would never have recognised him and known that his 'possible' real self had lost the use of his right arm........yes
this I didnt like, I wanted a true AI not one that was programmed to seem like they are an AI.

The way this ended, I dont think any of the hosts are AI's.
That takes away from the show.

Huya T5000.  It's been a while but catching up with episodes etc takes time and of course you have to be in the right mindset.

What I meant was.  In the credits, we know that Ed Harris is the man in black.  Also, having seen him in other movies, we know what he looks like.
We saw his recognisable self right at the end as a normal looking person in a tuxedo at the party.  I can only assume at this stage, considering he has lots of money, had ordered the building of the man-in-black host programmed to do his bidding and was even possibly under his control all the time.  Failing that, he was able to monitor it using chip-satellite tracking technology.

The man in black's treatment and dialogue with Dolores was a bit strange at times.  I don't believe he had any 'programming control' over her, yet he was constantly saying things to her that she couldn't possibly understand if she has default software that ignores anything that is not wild-west related.
I appreciate that when two AIs have verbal intercourse with each other, it could be way above our heads and make it impossible for the viewer to understand, except that we know what MiB says is all absorbed by Dolores and might indeed be understood in one of her DAEMONs, even if not acted upon?  She always seemed confused to me.

I wonder if the new sexy CEO, Charlotte Hale, played by Tessa Thompson, will survive? I think she might, unless, as is always a possibility, she too is a host, whereby her 'real self' is well out of the way somewhere safe.

I don't think at this stage any of the hosts are sentient enough to fit in with society - not even Maeve.  She might get an uncontrollable AI urge.

I assume Anthony Hopkins & Jeffrey Wright will be back in season 2, although we did see a bullet pass through Dr Robert Ford's head and blow blood out with it. I don't think we should assume their processors are in their head. Perhaps they're in a very strong metal protective box inside the body?

Still, I'll be looking forward to the next series.  Have you seen the picture of Elizabeth & Philip Jennings in their uniforms? (next series).